SPEAKER_00 0:01

What's up, y'all, and welcome to another Behind the Holster podcast. Again, this is a Concealed Coalition podcast. I'm your host, Jody Piku, and I've got Mr. Matt here with me from Concealed Coalition, national instructor uh for Concealed Coalition, and what I would say an expert in all things. Uh man, I can't even list all things for you. I feel like I'd be putting you on the spot, but that from the legal aspect to carrying, uh, just about all of it. We'll put it this way. I know a lot about a little and a little about a lot. That works, dude. That works. That's why we have kids because they know everything. Exactly. But today we're gonna talk about open carry versus concealed carry. Now, for us with concealed coalition, obviously, we highly promote and train on uh concealed carry, and that goes from the laws to fundamentals to safety to position of carry, holsters, uh, storage, the whole the whole nine yards. I think I think more than just the carrying of the firearm is is uh of the utmost importance, not just if you're gonna carry open or concealed, but I will say for me, Matt, uh we start this thing off that I am I am someone who I feel like is very open to other people's opinions and advice. I like to hear it and then I like to process it and see if it makes sense to apply to my life. I feel like you're a lot in that same way. We've worked together for years now. I feel like being being open-minded.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Absolutely. And I always tell people one of my favorite things to do is find out that I was wrong and have an opportunity to change my mind because I want to be right about stuff and I want to understand why my opinions are what they are. Um, so I'm always searching out the opposite opinion in a good argument of my opinion so that that way I can I can really see what those um what those look like. And and I've found myself to be wrong on quite a few things, and honestly, that's something that I'm proud of. I'm not not scared to admit that. And I think the purpose of this is obviously concealed coalition presents and and and pushes to our students that you should carry concealed. Um, but I think the purpose of this is just to give a little look behind the curtain. Like there's been a lot of thought and a lot of intentionality that's gone into it. Um, so this segment in particular, it's not we're not gonna beat anybody over the head with it, but this is why we believe what we believe. Um, and I think it's I think it's really relevant.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

Yeah, I'm not gonna beat anybody over the head with it. And I I think I am one, I would be 100 I am 100% open to it, and would absolutely love it if someone could change my mind about this very topic about should someone open carry or conceal carry, or what is better, open carry or concealed carry, and why? Because I feel like I've heard a lot of arguments. We've been in a lot of classes, we've heard people in there who would openly tell us that they open carry, and actually, in some states where we train the permit that they receive from that class actually gives them the availability to open or conceal carry. Minnesota, one of them, right? That's why it's called a permit to carry, because they can open carry or conceal carry uh with that permit. I want to I want to feel like somebody has a good point out there that can make me change my mind that open carry is better than concealed carry, or I personally should open carry because of whatever reason that is. I don't think the person exists. I would love if anybody's listening to this and you have a comment on it. I I welcome the comment because I want to be proven wrong. I'm so sure that concealed carry is better, it's safer, it's better, that I don't believe anybody can change my mind that open carry is better than concealed carry.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

You mean that you meant the other way around, that concealed carry is better than open carry.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

Yes, that concealed carry is better that oh they can't convince me that to open carry is a better option than to conceal carry. Because I I there's nothing in me that says I want to put a firearm on my hip that the whole world can see. I'm not a law enforcement officer, therefore I don't have the ability to do the things that a law enforcement officer can do, which I do believe that law enforcement open carrying is a good is a good idea for law enforcement. But for anybody outside of that, I just don't see it. I want you to give me some I want to give you to give me some of your thoughts on uh open carry versus concealed carry.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

Absolutely, yeah. And I'm of the same mindset. But then again, both of us would love to be proven wrong and shown how we're how we're incorrect. So if you have feedback, leave those in the comments. We'd love to uh to to further that conversation. Yeah. Um, so my opinion open versus concealed, I think concealed is the way to go. Um, what I see in a lot of individuals that I teach that are intent on open caring is a high level of ego. Uh, and ego and firearms do not mix. Now, this isn't everybody. There are some folks that just dis that disagree and they're run-of-the-mill normal civilians that are intent on protecting their families. And there's there's nothing necessarily wrong with that, but you do need to think about what you're doing and the purpose behind it. So, a couple things. When we talk about situational awareness and being the subject or being the victim of a violent encounter, um, which is why we carry a firearm. That's the whole reason we're in the class, that's the whole reason we're even having this discussion, is because we're making a plan. So when when the time comes, we're not just scrambling and trying to figure it out on the fly. What is the bad what a question I always ask my students, what does the bad guy, the guy that's trying that's coming after you and your family, what do they get to pick about this encounter? Just about everything. Everything they get to pick the time, the place, the method of the attack. Just about everything. That's in their control, that's in their hands. We're not going out looking for the bad guys. That's not our job. That's why law enforcement exists. We're just carrying to protect our family if someone comes after us. So we as the civilian, what do we get to pick? We simply get to pick our response. And our response is only as good as the preparation beforehand. So that's why training is important. That's why having this discussion is important. Let's say you're standing in Walmart and you're you're shopping in Walmart. When I go to Walmart, I don't know about you guys, but when I go to Walmart, I'm not looking for the bad guys. I'm looking for the apple juice, I'm looking for whatever else I'm there to purchase. And if a bad guy were to walk in, if somebody were to walk in intent on harming, let's just say a maximum number of people, individuals inside of Walmart, they're going to do whatever they can to maximize the damage that they cause. If I'm looking at the apple juice, trying to decide between organic name brand, store brand, whatever, the bad guy's gonna see the gun on my hip if I'm open carrying, and I'm gonna be the first one that gets shot. Because that bad guy wants to maximize the number or the amount of damage that they cause. So they're gonna start with whoever is standing in their way.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

So you're not under the impression that is I hear the same thing a lot. In that same scenario that you're talking about, I feel like what I've what the all the pushback I've ever got from from using a very similar scenario is that, well, when they see me with a gun, they're all of a sudden they're gonna change their mind and they're not gonna mess with me. I believe that goes into like the ego, right? That's kind of talking about, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:15

Well, you're not paying attention. Yeah, they they don't see you as a threat with a gun, they see you as an opportunity with a gun.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Yeah, and I think too, a lot of questions I ask is can you ever be situationally aware 100% of the time? And you wouldn't believe the response I get back that is yes, when truthfully, let's be honest.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

I I would venture a guess that they usually followed up with I always sit my sit with my back to the wall at the restaurant in the corner.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Yeah, I mean it's which is great, don't get me wrong. Like I I I get those things to make yourself to put yourself in a better position if something were to happen. But truth be told, we can't always do that because it's funny that you use that scenario. And I've never told you this story before, but I was actually in Walmart one time, and on the very on the very back aisle, of course, I was with my three little girls, and that the Walmart uh in my hometown, the very back aisle's got the the candy on it, okay. Some sometimes the discounted candy that's probably expired. Hey, that's even better. When I I went up there one time and I reached up to grab it, and a friend of mine who I haven't seen since high school came up to me and put his hand in a gun shape, and as I reached up, he stuck his fingers in my side and said, Give me all your money. And then he started laughing, right? And I he's one of the he was the funny guy in school, so I immediately knew who he was, but I was thinking, had this been a real person, there's there was nothing I could do at that point, right? And I also looked at him, I was like, bro, don't never do that again, you know. Like, yeah, don't don't do it. But that's well, that's not a way to maximize your uh long-term health. No, it's not, but I think it's like at that time, you know, I realized something that happened two to three years ago, but it it was like, you know, in moments like that, what am I, you know, am I gonna check my surroundings before I reach on that top shelf and grab that? And truthfully, if we want to say, well, you should have done that so that you're situation situationally aware, maybe so, but also we're humans and this is real life, and there are times throughout the day that we don't right, and just physiologically, just physiologically, you can't live in that state.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

Your cortisol levels are gonna spike to the point where you're gonna die early because you're being so situationally aware, it's it's not sustainable, which is, I mean, that's also, and I'm sure we'll cover this in another segment, but that's also why we teach baseline, not the color codes of awareness. Um, we teach having understanding what your surroundings should be, and then anything outside of that expectation, because you've been to Walmart before, you've been to a gas station before, you've been to a restaurant before. We know what to expect, and when it's outside of that, that's when our situation our our situational awareness and our our intentionality needs to elevate. But we can't live in that elevated state, it's just it's not doable.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

Yeah, it's not doable. I think too, the the thing that I I see living in Louisiana, we are an open carry state, and people quite a few people do choose to exercise that right, and I they're exercising their right to do it, then and then I commend them on that. I don't recommend it, uh, but good for them. But a lot of what I see with with open carry, very few times do I see someone who open carries with a retention-based holster, and that scares me. Most of them, and some of the leather ones they make now are retention-based, which are really cool because you know, a certain leather holster can be comfortable, but a non-retention-based holster, open carry, scares me. And there are videos all over the place that you can go look at where people walk in to gas stations mainly, and that's where I've seen the videos, and they literally walk up behind the person who's checking out, grab their gun, and run out the store. Now, personally, they're lucky they grabbed a gun and left the store, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:13

They'll take you 30 seconds on YouTube to go find 10 videos of that exactly.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

Yeah, but if that if that were concealed properly, let me say, not printing, right? Showing the image of the gun or something like that, to me, that's almost equally as bad as as open open carry, uh, which I think that printing, which is a whole nother episode, brings on a whole nother set of issues. But the fact of the concealed carry, I know what a concealed coalition uses is be a guardian always and a warrior when needed, and being a guardian always is that you look like everybody else. There's no no different if you're concealed carrying properly, should I say. But open carry, man, I just I don't believe the method of the bad guy sees it and they run, but I also think the perception of police officers open carrying, you've you've been uh in law enforcement before. Nobody's gonna walk up behind you and just pop the gun out of your holster.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Right. Right. And there's also a whole nother level of training when uh as it comes to law enforcement. What I would challenge our viewers, pay attention to the cops that are that you see just hanging around the coffee cooler at the uh the local circle K or something of that nature. And typically what you'll see, especially with the ones that are squared away, is their oh I'm I'm left-handed, so it's always my left arm, but their dominant arm is going to be if because they're probably not going to be fiddling with their firearm, but it's their dominant arm is gonna be sitting right over top of their firearm. That's an extra level of retention because you can't get the gun past the forearm, and it's very deliberate when that happens. Um, and there's a there's a whole nother part of this as well, especially as it as it relates to civilian versus law enforcement open carry. In the civilian world, the escalating ladder of force or you using force on it on an escalatory level. So you very at the very bottom you have open hand control. So that's grabbing, pushing, slapping, etc. Then closed hand control, that's striking with your with your fist, with your elbow, knee, something like that. Um, and then you have non-leths or or we well, yeah, we'll call them non-letals, like pepper spray. And then you have less than lethals, like tasers, and then you have deadly force. It's gonna be firearms, weapons, etc. In the law enforcement world, the ladder doesn't start with open hand control, the ladder starts with officer presence, and the reason behind that is because the cop is obviously armed. When someone shows up with a gun, they're already executing a certain level of force in that area. So understanding that states allow it, that's one thing, but we also have to recognize that if we choose to carry open carrying, we're already executing a certain level of force. So I mean, I think that's an important distinction as well.

SPEAKER_00 15:17

Yeah, and I think in today's world with open carry, you've gotta you gotta realize um not just the what do we say, the bad guys who are there to to cause you or other people harm, but you're also opening yourself up to a lot of let's just say discussions from civilians that may not be pro-gun and may see issues with that by open carry, you open the door to those conversations, or even a lot of people aren't up to date with the state laws. I know of a lot of people, I don't know the people, but the stories that that I've been told by law enforcement officers where they have been called to the scene of someone who's legally open carry. And so when they're called to the scene, there is there are certain protocols that they have to continue with, right? They have to approach the person, they have to ask the questions because they got the call on it, which just causes more drama that you really shouldn't have to deal with. But I do know we have a lot more on this topic. We got some holsters we're gonna go over for uh conceal, maybe even some open carry holsters, if that's gonna be your life uh style and you want to open carry. We appreciate you owning a firearm and being willing to carry to protect yourself, protect your family. But we're gonna go into that in our uh YouTube membership uh channel. And so you can click on the link below. I think we've got it for $2.99. You can join on. If you are somebody who does open carry and you feel like you have an argument, you feel like you have a case that you can prove Matt and myself wrong on this, we will bring you on the show and we will let you discuss that with us. Leave us a comment down below. We'll reach out to you and we'll get you on here because I would love, like I said, for somebody to be able to change my mind. Because I think it would educate me a lot more on the mindset as to why someone open carries.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

And also let us know. Let us know what you want us to cover next. What's on your mind? Yeah, what do you want us to talk about?

SPEAKER_00 17:14

What's on your mind, man? We've got a list of of what we feel like some good stuff. But if you're hearing some stuff out there or want to know, be sure to comment below. Join the membership, guys, get exclusive content from us. We've got some other guest speakers that we're gonna be ringing on. So thank you guys for your time today, Matt. Appreciate you. And uh happy Mother's Day to all the mothers out there, and we'll see you next time on Behind the Holster, a Concealed Coalition podcast.