SPEAKER_01 0:00

What's up, y'all? Welcome to Behind the Holster of Concealed Coalition podcast. My name is Jody Piku, and I've got my good friend here with me, Mr. Matt Wheeler. How are you doing, Matt? I'm good.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

I'd say what's up, y'all, but that one's already taken by Jody.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Dude, trademark, bro. You can't say it. I got a trademark actually in the in that in that uh voice. But today, what we're gonna talk about, uh guys, we post some polls and we get a lot of feedback. We get a lot of comments, a lot of questions from these polls. And one of the latest ones we did was talking about a bill that recently passed in North Carolina, which allows teachers to carry concealed in schools, in their classrooms. And this has brought up a lot of discussion on whether we should allow them to carry in schools. If they are allowed to carry, then what type of training is required for that? So we really wanted to dig into that a little bit today and give our thoughts and opinions and maybe some experiences that we've had with students asking these questions that we've been in in some of the trainings. So, first I want to read the poll and give you the results, Matt. And then I would love to get some of your comments on to uh what do you think about teachers carrying in schools? I know you got kids. How would you feel with your kids being in a classroom with a teacher who's actually carrying a firearm? So here was the poll. North Carolina recently passed a bill, House Bill 193, that allows teachers in private schools to arm themselves. How do you feel about private schools allowing trained employees to carry concealed weapons on campus? And if I go into these results, we have uh 90% of people say yes, it's added protection, it's beneficial. We have 7% that said no, it introduces unnecessary risks, and then 2% that said, I need more information, which I can respect that 2%. Because I feel like while my knee-jerk response is absolutely, I think there's a lot that goes on too. So I'm I'm gonna hold my comments back for a minute and I'm gonna let you share, Matt. What do you think on House Bill 193 allowing teachers in private schools to carry firearms?

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Absolutely. Yeah. So I think on any pretty much any topic that is widely disagreed on, there's always two sides to it. And the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. So at risk of sitting on a fence and uh and and being uncomfortable, and at risk of making a bunch of people angry, I'm gonna say more guns in school doesn't always equal more better. I know that's a that's the stance and the thought process behind a lot of uh folks surrounding this issue. Real briefly, though, I want to touch on the the kind of history behind this bill. As I was doing my research, I came across a essentially discussion by, I don't want to get his name wrong, representative Jeff McNeely. He was the guy that that originally introduced the bill. And he stated as his purpose, he'd been contacted by a lot of the schools, the private schools in his district, and was told, we just can't afford security. We cannot afford to hire someone to be at the school and keep our kids safe. So that's that's the goal, the push behind this bill. And I mean, I'm a dad of three kids. I get that on a on a cellular level. Look, I just the money doesn't stretch that far. So understanding the background and understanding that this is only private schools, this is well, not necessarily just private, but non-public schools, I think that it is a really good start, but I don't think that that we're there. One of the requirements in order to do this is to take a minimum of eight hours of training per year, eight hours per year from an NRA instructor. That other than being firearms specific, that training is unspecified.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

You had training also, what I saw was outside of a concealed carry permit. Correct.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

Yeah, you also have to conceal carry permit. Right, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So you have to have a concealed carry permit, and that can be from North Carolina or that can be from one of the reciprocal states with North Carolina, but you could quite literally, and now the NRA basic pistol course is a phenomenal course for getting into how guns work, but you could theoretically take that once a year and you're good for this. And it's online training, and there's an NRA instructor that signs off on your stuff. So while the concept I think is good, the intent behind it is good. I don't think the application is quite there yet.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Yeah, I agree. I don't think listen, eight hours we all know is not a long time for training. Yates. No, welcome, welcome, welcome back to the show, Yates. Appreciate you. Appreciate you being here. But eight hours of training is a year to me, is where my issue kind of comes in with this. Number one, yeah, I got five kids. Uh, three of them were in private school last year. We're homeschooling now, but they were in private school last year. Do I want their teachers carrying firearms? I'm gonna I'm gonna go a step above that. Do I want their teachers with eight hours of training carrying a concealed firearm? No, I probably don't because I don't think eight hours is enough to educate you on the type of situation that you would deal with inside of a school. Is eight hours enough training, enough time to teach you basic pistol safety? Basic pistol safety in a way that allows you to put a firearm on your side and walk around with. I think you need more, but with eight hours, I'd I'd feel comfortable with teaching you enough about safety and about laws in your state that would certify you to walk around with a firearm on your hip. Put you in a classroom full of kids, you're not necessarily dealing with the same threat that you would deal with in a Walmart parking lot. It's completely different. You're in a confined space, most likely, with kids everywhere. We all know distance is your best friend in a self-defense situation. In a case where an active shooter walks into a classroom, distance is almost impossible to get. And so I think they're Texas, and you know, Yates got tired of what I was saying, so he hopped off. But I think in Texas, and I have to look this up. Uh I'll look it up when you jump back in here, but I think Texas has the same thing where their teachers can carry, but I believe it's a 40 hours of training every year. That's a little better for me. Because in 40 hours, which essentially the full week, working week, you could teach teachers a lot more about um tactical or I'm sorry, active shooter response. You can teach teachers, we all say if you carry a firearm and you're able to put a hole in someone, you should know how to plug that hole as well. And so I think you can bring in a lot of not just your basic CPR, but more of a stop-to-bleed type course for students who do potentially get injured in cases like that. So I would love to see more extensive training put onto a program like this. I'm all for it so long as the regulations are written in a way where I think the teacher has enough training to feel comfortable, one, to handle the situation, but two, comfortable enough to have that firearm on their person all day. Because what are we talking about? Teachers who don't even have, let's just say they go get a concealed carry permit. And we've seen people come through classes to get concealed carry permits that that I would say are very experienced. And I've seen some that are very new. So let's just go from a new standpoint. They pass this bill. A teacher says, okay, I can carry. I want to do that. I'm gonna go do the minimum amount of training required in order to do that. Here's what I have to do. I got to go take a concealed carry course. Great. You're gonna learn basic pistol safety and you're gonna learn the laws in your state regarding self-defense. And then I'm gonna go take, let's say, what you mentioned, the NRA basic pistol safety course. I'm gonna go take that course. And then I'm gonna put a firearm on my hip and I'm gonna go walk into a classroom. My problem with that more is that when you decide to conceal carry, it's a lifestyle change. You're not just making a decision that you have a card, I can put a gun on my hip and walk in certain places. It's a lifestyle change. And as adults, we're very busy and forgetful. And what we can't have happen is someone who's not in that lifestyle for very long, all of a sudden taking 16 hours of basic training, putting a gun on their hip and walking into a classroom. That scares me a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Yeah, I I completely agree with you. And just to highlight your point even further, you could take an armorer course to teach you how to put a gun back together. And this is supposedly going to qualify you, versus the state of Texas that requires that 40 hours of training. And I'm taking taking your word your word for it because I don't know the ins and outs of it. But my understanding is that specific prescribed training that's relevant to what they're going to be doing. Because training has to be recent, relevant, and realistic. And I'm sorry, but if you're carrying a gun in my child's classroom, a basic pistol course or an armor course is not relevant and it's not realistic. It's it's just, and then think about month 11. That's not recent either. So you're not hitting any of the any of the things that you need to be in order to be qualified to do that. Now, there is the other side of it though, of having a school with no protection, with doors you can just walk in. Because let's be honest, this bill is supporting or trying to solve budgeting issues or or income issues for smaller public schools or private schools. And I'm a huge proponent of private schools. Let's let's do it. It's it's a great thing for our kids. Get them out of the public education sphere sphere. You get to control what they're learning a little bit more, and you get to have a little more oversight into the environment that they're in. But these here's my smaller but these smaller schools, they don't have they don't have the infrastructure because typically they're in churches or they're in some other type of low security building. They don't have the infrastructure to even lock the doors during the school day.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Yeah. And so to me, you know, because we're gonna hear the feel, oh, the Second Amendment, my God given right to carry a firearm. All right, great. I love it. I support the Second Amendment. I think everyone who can legally own a firearm should be able to legally carry that firearm. I also wish that as adults, we would be responsible in understanding that just because I own a firearm doesn't mean I know how to properly use it. It doesn't mean that I know gun safety.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

The argument, if I could just touch on that real quick, the argument, the argument to that, it's the Second Amendment, it's my God-given right to own a gun and go wherever I want, but it's also private property. And being able to control your private property in your space is a God-given right as well. So we're not talking about the public sphere, we're not talking about the public place, we're talking about private property specifically.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Yeah, and and private property, people people can do what they want. Here's here's where I'm at. My kids went to private school last year. A couple years before that, when they had the the Ubaldi school shooting, is when it seemed like a lot of these private schools started to at that point then discuss having security on the grounds. And great, right? It usually takes a tragic event like that for people to begin to have that conversation. So they sent a letter out asking if uh about raising tuition a little bit in order to provide for uh a police officer, a licensed police officer in the town. And I'm yes, sure. You want to raise tuition for something like that? Absolutely. And I don't think, for from my knowledge, no parents said no to that. We want to protect our kids. What gets is let's just say in a private school setting, the other day I went to the World War World War II Museum in New Orleans. And when you go in there, you can conceal carry your firearm if you have a permit. So we are a permitless carry state now, Louisiana is, but in order to conceal carry in there, you do have to have your permit. So that was one advantage to it. But when you walk through these detectors, it literally has a screen over there by security that signifies that I have a gun, that I'm carrying a firearm. It draws a box around it on my body, right? So, number one, that technology is in the World War II museum. If a private school came to me and said, hey, we want to put this technology in at the entrance of our school, number one, I would say yes. What is what is that per family in order to get something like that? To start the prevention from the outside of the school rather than inside of the classroom. Let's be honest, if it makes it into a classroom, tragedy has already happened somewhere. If an active shooter makes it onto a campus and into a classroom, chances are that something has already happened. Or if they make it into the classroom and the teacher has a firearm, they will be able to, I think, stop the threat once damage has already occurred. But it's just like the the mindset of, well, if somebody's pointing a gun at me right here, I'm gonna have time to draw and shoot when they've when they've already got to draw on me. I'm I'm probably already dead. So what processes or what things can we do in order to stop the threat before it comes inside? I don't know if you've noticed, but lately a couple of the church incidents that have happened have started from outside the church, where it was the one in Michigan, the dri guy drove his vehicle through or into the church. I wasn't there, I can't say it was preventable, but I think that when you're talking about church security, a lot of that's focused inside of the church. Well, why don't we start trying to focus outside before it happens? We teach people in church security training to be aware of when people walk in the door. And if they walk in the door wearing a trench coat and it's 100 degrees outside, that's a clue. Well, what if we got that clue outside before they walk inside the church? Where the potential for tragedy is there and available. So to me, I would love to see more things happen outside of the school grounds, protecting them versus let's just focus on the inside. Entrances to schools. I can tell you, I can go to any private school and I can make it to a classroom door if I wanted to. That in itself shouldn't happen. So kind of off topic a little bit of it. But when we come into to securing or having security for our kids, I'm all for teachers carrying with the proper training. That's a good point you made. Not armory training, proper training. And in Texas, the way they did it, I'm absolutely 100% for it because you have to be, in order to uh take the 40 hours of training, you have to be a, I forget what their name is up for, a school resource trainer. So you can't just be an NRA trainer or armory trainer. You have to take a specific course taught by a certified instructor in that course. That makes a lot more sense to me.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

It does. It does. Um, and to highlight your point, those detectors in schools, yeah, that's really important. But just like you mentioned with the the last few incidents at churches, it's the same with a few of the recent private school shootings that that are in my memory. Those shooters were not students and they didn't know it didn't originate from a classroom. It originated from outside. So I think the first and foremost critical objective is to harden the outside of these schools. I don't know exactly what it looks like. The easiest thing that comes to my mind is what they call, I don't know if we're allowed to say it on YouTube, but doors that you the first, the the front door locks, and then there's a corridor with another locks door. So you could theoretically lock someone in or let the allow entrance, examine them, and then deny their entrance once they're already semi-inside the building. That type of entrance way, I believe, would be much more economical. But again, the problem is, especially with this specific bill, what it what it would originated to address is these are small, low budget private schools that don't have a dedicated building. So they can't necessarily just make changes to the infrastructure of the building that they're using for this school. And a church typically, once you lock the door, is locked inside and out. And I believe it's against fire code to lock a bunch of kids inside of a building. But that means you can't lock people out either. And and it's it's it's a it's a problem that's much larger than just, hey, this isn't, this is an easy fix. But I do think in order to carry, in order for me as a parent to be comfortable having my child's teacher carrying a firearm, I would need to know exactly what schools they trained at and exactly what took place. Because again, if you took an armor class, no, I'm sorry, but no, you're you're I don't trust you to not leave your firearm sitting in the in the drawer of your desk because it got uncomfortable. Yeah. But if you took something like the alert training that focuses on active shooter response, then yeah, I believe that your mentality, your mindset is right. Because if you went through that training and you're still still carrying a gun, you understand exactly what it would take to stop a threat. And you're like, that's the concern.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

That that that to me is more of the concern, is to me, and you both know with the wrong holster gun is is is not it's it's more aggravating than it is you feeling secure because you're feeling it all day long. So, but to me, those people who are in the space and trainers and you who who carry every day, that's such a simple thing. But I also think of how in times I've had my firearm on in a in a holster that I was trying out and didn't like. And I'm thinking, man, I just wish I had a safe with me to put this thing in. And that same thought process when you're sitting behind a desk can be very easy to say, man, I wish I had a magnet under my desk. Or I wish I could just put this in the desk drawer while I'm sitting here. But when I get up, I'll take it with me. And that one time that you don't take it with you, there's a there's an exposed firearm in a classroom. Huge problem. But I have heard other people have asked me about this specific topic, and they mentioned a few things which could potentially work. Because the way they make safes nowadays, I would say that there's you get a good safe, it's very secure, and it's very, very difficult to make entry into the safe without some sort of specific tool. But if there were a teacher's desk that had a safe built into it and the firearm wasn't in the desk, and if that firearm were accessed, let's just say by teacher fingerprint per se, then an alarm went off. Because if teacher's going for firearm, an alarm goes off on the school, and I say, hey, you know what? That makes sense to me. Now we wanna we want to pick that apart. We could pick it apart all day long. What if the teacher's not by desk when the shooter comes in? Absolutely. I don't think we can solve all problems. But when I think of something that's lowest, lower risk to students, higher risk for teacher, and here's the thing too, and going into that, I think all schools should be equipped with something that with an activation device that can lock the doors if needed, 100%. If the if the office sees on a if a security guard sees on a camera, someone coming onto the school grounds and doors need to be locked down, then there needs to be that activation switch. So I could see things like that in the in the desk for the teacher to have it accessible if needed. And again, I don't think it solves all problems. I don't think we can solve all problems. I think we can just begin to try and eliminate the worst of the worst. And to me, it starts with outside school grounds and let's work our way in. Because truth be told, if the problem that lives outside of the school makes entry inside the school, that's problem number one. And fixing that's a lot more difficult because chances are tragedy has already happened. Yeah. So yeah, I'd love to see more schools do it.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

The one firm stance I can take on it without being wishy-washy is it's never the best, it's never the best option to make our schools the softest target possible.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

I agree.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

And if you eliminate firearms, any firearms, and any protection uh measures from schools, all you're doing is making it an easy target. And I mean, we know gun stores don't often get robbed in the daytime because typically that doesn't turn out well for the for the robber.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

It definitely shouldn't be a gun-free zone, right? I do not agree with gun-free zones because law-abiding citizens, people who get training, and it prevents them from carrying somewhere when the criminal is still going to carry a gun in there. So at the end of the day, I'm 100% pro gun. I am 100% with uh teachers carrying with the proper training. That's that's what it boils down to to me. And and I don't think that's too much to ask because I think everyone should get training. If you're gonna carry in public, then you need training. If you're gonna carry in your house, you need training. If you're gonna carry at your church, you need training. I don't think anything takes the place of anyone who's going to carry or carries a firearm. I don't care if you've been doing it for 30 or 40 years. There's always something you can learn in training. I know I'm gonna speak for myself and I'm gonna speak for you too on this. We've been working together long enough that I know it. But there have been classes that we've gone to in the beginning when we were starting the company. In the beginning, we've been into classes with with instructors who, you know, let's just say they don't work for us anymore. And maybe they weren't the best instructors, but even in those types of classes, you still learn something. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

You know, even with what to not do.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

Exactly. But there's some nugget in every training that you go to. And I've had people who retired from the military who've been trained way more than I have on firearms, who've come to classes and told myself or other instructors that were there is saying, like, man, this was great because they taught us these things in the military working in this path. But the things you talked about here are how to deal in a in a let's call it a civilians world, how to deal with these things from a civilian side versus a military side. And in a military, they're not really teaching you if you get pulled over by a law enforcement officer for speeding, how do you handle that traffic stop? Different in every state. But again, that's something in a concealed spare, concealed carry space that's very important that we cover in every class because chances are that's going to happen versus military training. Although you may be able to shoot the X out of a target, which is great. You may be safe with a firearm. There's so many of these other concepts that just aren't covered. So let me say this, and this this will be my stance. I like how you said it without being wishy-washy. Teachers should not carry firearms in a classroom without proper training. That's how I stand on it. Can they carry outside in public? Yes. All they want. Can they carry concealed carry bound by their state laws? Yes. If you put them in a confined space with a room full of children, they need to be properly trained for what to do in that space. And this is not just accuracy with the firearm. This is mindset. What do we always say in classes? You might go home and you might practice your draw. You might get your draw down to a second or a second and a half or whatever. And I applaud you for that. But if your decision making takes 20 seconds to decide to get to that once, to that second and a half, then that second and a half doesn't matter. So how do we educate these teachers on not just, like you said, eight hours in an armory course is not going to educate you in a way that allows you to know what to do. If an act active shooter training and concealed carry training are two completely separate things. Two completely separate. So if you're going to put in, and I think you're doing the parents, the teachers, and the children a disservice by not requiring that teacher to go get training on the most probable situation they will deal with. That's my thoughts on it. I'm all for it, but I'm also all for training and education. And if you don't get that, then I feel like you're doing everyone in the picture a disservice because I I would like to think, I like to thank the best of people. And I would like to think that these teachers that now can carry a firearm in a classroom would not want the minimum amount of training. I would hope that if they if they say, hey, I want to carry in my classroom, I want to know how to deal with the probable situations that will happen and I'm going to go get this training. That's what I hope they would do. I would hope, and I don't think, that we have a teacher out there who says, Hey, I want the bare minimum to carry a gun in the classroom. I really don't think we have that. So this may be a problem that I have with it, that may be null and void because we have good and responsible teachers out there who will do it. So yeah. That's kind of where I stand on it.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Uh it's a good point, but there's also there's a bad eggs in every single bunch and every single carton. Now, that's not to say the vast majority, just like law enforcement, just like military, the vast majority are the folks that want that training, that want the actual knowledge and understanding of what they need to do, versus the one or two here or there that decides they want to look cool in front of their students and carry a gun. So they just do the minimum amount required. Yeah, I agree. One thing I wanted to highlight about this bill, real quick before we wrap it up. There in the law, there is a specific reference to stun guns. Um, and now stun gun, probably the wrong word for it. Um, a stun gun is something that's handheld that you have to be within arm's reach in order to use. However, taser makes law enforcement application tasers available for civilian purchase. So it would be, I I think it would be an interesting thought experiment to kind of dig into what if tasers in the classrooms and guns protecting the outside of the school. Definitely something to to needle through. Not I haven't spent much, much time on it. Um, but I could certainly see that I could see a lot of different arguments from a lot of different viewpoints, but I think that that is going to that that type of model would allow for more agreement across the aisle than simply lethal firearms in the classroom. I don't see that as as something that's going to take off on a national level. But let us know in the comments, what do you guys think? Tasers in a classroom, guns in the classroom, nothing in the classroom. Let us know what you think. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

And what's your poll on on should teachers be able to carry uh in a classroom? You know, be specific on it. What training, what type of training do you think should be required? Maybe the more of us that speak up about this, the more we can get some things implemented, like Texas has, where the 40 hours of training by someone who is a school, uh I forget what it is. I think it's a school resource instructor, something of that nature. But I think it's important that they do get the training. And again, if they need the training, they can check out concealedcoalition.com, type in their zip code right there, and there will be show all the trainings in your area. We are actually pretty well covered in the state of North Carolina. So uh as we wrap this up, we'll say this episode is sponsored by Kangaroo Carry Holsters. The best holster you'll never see. So if you're looking for a shoulder holster, they have the market 100% made in the USA great quality holster. Been in business. We're gonna be going on 30 years of business in 2026 uh in making these holsters and redefining them and making them again the best holster you'll never see and the most comfortable. You can see the link in the comments uh if you're looking for that. You can use the coupon code podcast, coupon code podcast, and get 20% off of that holster. Thank you for your time today, Matt. Appreciate the insight. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

Absolutely. Real quick before we go, if you made it to the end of the podcast, you are now my favorite human being. Type Sam the Safety Squirrel to let me know that you made it all the way to the end, and I will be very happy with you for sure.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

Yeah, here we go. Here's Sam the Safety Squirrel right behind me. So thank y'all. Uh tune in next time. We'll have another episode coming out soon. So from behind the holster concealed coalition podcast, Jody Piku and Matt Wheeler signing off. Y'all stay safe and stay concealed.